Ongoing Coverage of Fukushima Nuclear Plant

Thanks PR! Enjoy the trip! We'll keep the site warm and the lights on for you.

Even if we have to use candles!

PR-Thanks for the excellent links. Adding this article to favorites. JJ

Yes, thank you P-r. Have a great trip!

Also, thanks for the periodic table. That is a wonderful reference tool.

and if you can remember, could you bring us some nice cannoli when you come back?

I'm with you. Have a great trip!

Had to look up amarone. That sounds interesting. I,m camped out in North Beach; I'll try one tonite. Chianti,s are nice.

Chiming in to say hope all goes well. Then when you're grandson is 20, he can say, I did all of this cool stuff when I was three - and now ??? ..nothing. :) ..Atleast he can look back at the pics.

Have fun!

Amarone isn't easy to find. I went to the local liquor store. They had four labels of amarone, but they started at 70$. The owner said that a valpolicella was similar but cheaper, so I am now sipping on a valpolicella. Very nice! and only 16$. As good as this bottle is, I could well imagine that a full amarone would be a taste sensation.

An official with the Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan, speaking on national television, said the rating was being raised from 5 to 7 — the highest level on the international scale.

The official, who was not named, said the amount of radiation leaking from the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant was around 10 percent of the Chernobyl accident.

The level 7 signifies a "major accident" with "wider consequences" than the previous level, according to the standards scale.

"We have upgraded the severity level to 7 as the impact of radiation leaks has been widespread from the air, vegetables, tap water and the ocean," said Minoru Oogoda of Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency.

NISA officials said one of the factors behind the decision was that the total amount of radioactive particles released into the atmosphere since the incident had reached levels that apply to a Level 7 incident.

The action lifts the rating to the highest on an international scale designed by an international group of experts in 1989 and is overseen by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

Important to note (P-r mentioned this in a comment bellow) that the core material is still in the footprint of the plant, and that is not likely to change. This is important because the fallout we're seeing is cleanable in time... in Chernobyl's case, core material (like, chunks of the stuff) went flying. That was near permanent contamination, which is different than what we're seeing at Fukushima. Still, the contamination is pretty bad. Still watching.

"...the core material is still in the footprint of the plant, and that is not likely to change."

Yes K Chad - THAT is the "good news" from this event, and the crucial difference between Dai-ichi and Chernobyl.

(Fingers are crossed; as bad as it is now, we're hopeful that it won't get worse.)

K Chad, please correct me if you think I'm mistaken, it seemed that it was stated that chunks of foreign debris were blasted after the explosion at # 4. Some landed closer and was bulldozed (between 3 and 4), but I believe it was stated that some debris went further out... ?

I read a piece that mentioned that the resin spray had been used on the hillside behind #4. That might indicate a heavier contamination.

it seemed that it was stated that chunks of foreign debris were blasted after the explosion at # 4. Some landed closer and was bulldozed (between 3 and 4), but I believe it was stated that some debris went further out... ?

If you have your source please post. The stories that I've found are mentioning some plutonium oxide being released. The media likes to focus on the plutonium, but if there's plutonium oxide, then that means the other fissile material is being oxidized too. If they wanna call that debris, then I guess all the freedom to them. I have yet to see a story about solid core material being ejected from the plants.

The area around the plant has been coated with radioactive fallout. The fact that they are bulldozing/spraying-resin isn't an indication either way. Whether there's core material or not, they'd have to do it to prevent unnecessary runoff and to block excess radio-emissions. I wish I was on the ground over there... it'd be nice to see whats going on first hand. One thing that I'd like to have an answer to is how the fallout is being deposited so close to the reactor. The initial explosions would have 'splattered' it everywhere, but the steam and smoke being released wouldn't have deposited so close. It's certainly not strange that they have contamination close to the plant, I'm just confused why they have so much on the surface (as opposed to the ground water stuff) and why it is continuing to build up as indicated by the 'news' stories.

NHK reports TEPCO has sprayed 195 tons of water on #4 on Wednesday morning. They believe they have a leak still, as well as some hot spots in the pool still. The temp has risen to 90C, and the water is giving off 84 millisieverts/hr.

It's certainly not strange that they have contamination close to the plant, I'm just confused why they have so much on the surface (as opposed to the ground water stuff) and why it is continuing to build up as indicated by the 'news' stories.

Is it weather related? I've also seen shots of steam coming out of the reactor on #2, condensing on the debris, then dripping constantly as if it were raining. I used to work on refineries and when it would rain I would come home covered in soot. Anyways when I saw the steam dripping off of everything, it gave me the chills.

DogonCrook,

Ah okay...

I guess my question is, if it's raining while this stuff is venting, will the material fall locally instead of dispersing?

K Chad -- I can't find the report(s) that talked about "foreign" debris that had landed on the ground between #3 and #4 (which are relatively far apart -3/4 of a mile or so I think) after the explosion at number 4. It said, as I recall, that the emissions from the debris were so high that for the safety of the workers, they decided to bulldoze over it. As I recall, it was stated that debris was found up to either 5 km or 5 miles? away. ..This particular report was discussing the after-effects of the #4 explosion - but there were other explosions, too, at the other reactors ..so do we know for sure which explosion blasted what?? I don't think so.

The resin that was being sprayed was for a different reason - to keep radioactive dust from going into the atmosphere. I guess that means they were spraying the general area?? Or, maybe they were identifying the *most radioactive ground areas* as a result of the explosions and/or steam venting - and just spraying those areas. I don't know. Even with steam venting, with most going into the atmosphere - there would still be ground contamination involved eventually, I would think.

Great seed, as usual, Retired.

Voted up.

I am just concerned that coverage of this now-admitted, Chernobyl-level disaster, is not even making front pages in most of the Mainstream Media.

Am I missing something?

Hi Brandon, ..my 'interpetation' from what I've read is that they aren't concluding or admitting that the disaster is near the same level as Chernobyl as indicated in 1.13 above - the change in severity level is for other reasons.

The official, who was not named, said the amount of radiation leaking from the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant was around 10 percent of the Chernobyl accident.

The level 7 signifies a "major accident" with "wider consequences" than the previous level, according to the standards scale.

Aren't serious catastrophes always downplayed by the media, and by those that stand to benefit from doing so? ..seemingly.

The change to a 7 could also have been because of the pressure/temp. spikes as well. It looked as like another explosion was possible. It seems as though that was a real danger a couple of days ago, and we certainly are not out of the woods. The radiation isn't anywhere near chernobyl levels. That said it spiked a bunch of instruments around the site. One of the reasons information started to trickle. If your trying to avoid panic it's hard to do so when there is too much radiation to measure. I wouldn't expect TEPCO to say "we don't know the exact readings because our monitors do not go that high."

The rating system to me seems arbitrary, and because of chernobyl has a lot of symbolic baggage. They might as well call it threat level orange, it really doesn't seem to mean @!$%#, except you don't want to be there.

"we don't know the exact readings because our monitors do not go that high."

I remember when one of the sources quoted TEPCO saying that. Their equipment couldn't go high enough to measure the ground-level readings. (I believe it was during all of discussion of the ground-water contamination.)

It would seem that the ground-water is obviously going to carry (move) a lot of the contamination away to another area (glad that higher levels of contamination will be filtered), but it's likely to do some depositing along the way, of the more serious radionuclides.

Sorry about the late response...

I guess my question is, if it's raining while this stuff is venting, will the material fall locally instead of dispersing?

Yea, some of it would.

so do we know for sure which explosion blasted what?

No, we don't know for sure what blasted what. The main reason I'm skeptical about any large pieces of the spent rods being ejected from the plants would be because of the nature of the explosions. Considering the worst-case setup, the rods would have been exposed to air (thus fully exposed to the explosion). Even in this case, I personally doubt the hydrogen explosion would have destroyed any of the rods. The most I see happening would be the surface eroded away some. The explosion wasn't a piece of plastic explosives attached to the side of the rods... it was an air-fuel explosion. All of the reacting material was spread out over a large area, and when it went up, the explosions effects on items in the inside of the building would have been pressure from all sides, not a single shock-wave. I maintain from what I know, that the fissile material is largely contained to the buildings footprints, and that the debris they're talking about are particulate, or non-fissile material with particulate fissile material 'caked' onto them.

Just a guess though, for all I know, the rods could have harpooned themselves into the lawn outside the plants... but that doesn't really make sense to me...

I guess that means they were spraying the general area?? Or, maybe they were identifying the *most radioactive ground areas* as a result of the explosions and/or steam venting - and just spraying those areas. I don't know. Even with steam venting, with most going into the atmosphere - there would still be ground contamination involved eventually, I would think.

Your guess is as good as mine. Wind patterns are pretty easy to follow, so it'd make sense to focus on a hillside near the plant.

I am just concerned that coverage of this now-admitted, Chernobyl-level disaster, is not even making front pages in most of the Mainstream Media.

So many different answers to that. In the end I'm glad that they aren't covering it so fixatedly, but dropping the story altogether is quite cruel considering Japan is still hurting. As for the reason, Mainstream news is more interested in politics than world events... for the most part. I am a little surprised that the media isn't milking the crap out of this event, but they're the ones keeping an eye on the ratings... not me.

Discussion on the change to 7 &

The change to a 7 could also have been because of the pressure/temp. spikes as well. It looked as like another explosion was possible. It seems as though that was a real danger a couple of days ago, and we certainly are not out of the woods.

These ratings are reactive, not proactive. They don't consider the future possibility of radioactive contamination, just what has already happened. The fact that the contamination has made it so far away from the plant would be the main reason. It's on the same level as Chernobyl in the scope of its effect, but not necessarily the magnitude.

Thanks for stopping by, K Chad. It's always nice to read your perspective, imo.

Thanks K Chad.

As for the rating system I'm reading now it's kinda arbitrary. Whats your take on the rating? A lot of people seem to think calling it a 7 is absurd based on releases. I kind of think it's in the ball park in terms of release, but I don't think it's even close in terms of overall environmental damage. Anyway lots of conflicting takes on this.

Dogon - I know you are addressing K Chad with your question.

I thought I'd comment that from the info that the source material provides (I quoted one on the the second page), that rating system was established after the Chernobyl disaster and is kind of an "in-house" tool they use to rate according to not necessarily the amount of contamination released, but more to point to 'more' or 'less' widespread contamination - as a precaution and advisory to those in the area. ..atleast, that's my interpretation of the statements.

As for the rating system I'm reading now it's kinda arbitrary. Whats your take on the rating? A lot of people seem to think calling it a 7 is absurd based on releases. I kind of think it's in the ball park in terms of release, but I don't think it's even close in terms of overall environmental damage. Anyway lots of conflicting takes on this.

I'm gonna kinda echo CL1 on this. Although total releases certainly play a role, the ratings seem to be focused on how much the contamination spreads. The radiation released from the plant passed the point where they can cause harm quite a while ago, so that qualifies it for level 4. The fact that its effecting such a massive portion of Japan qualifies it to pass into the domain for "wider consequences" (or level 5). At this point, yea, it is rather arbitrary.

The way I think about it:

If a radiation event happens (inside or outside) that could potentially hurt someones health, then it's serious (level 3). If the radiation is high enough to hurt people, and is released from the plants containment, its going to have local effects (level 4). If the radiation leakage is both high level and is released further than the immediate area (in the case of 3-miles island, a city) then it's at least a 5. Anything beyond that is really an emotional factor. The levels don't matter once it passes into "it can cause harm" levels. If the Japanese hadn't been evacuating and hadn't been taking countermeasures against contamination, then this event would have hurt a lot of people. Thankfully, they have been appropriately evacuating. The difference between 6 and 7? I dunno... No it's not nearly as bad as Chernobyl, but that doesn't matter much. It's more of "Is the Fukushima really midway between Chernobyl and 3-Miles Island anymore?" They've decided that its not, and that 6 doesn't quite do the situation justice. Had the leakage stopped a few weeks ago, it probably would have been taken as a 6...

I personally hate scales like this... ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0Z0raWIHXk content warning... these guys swear a lot and is not appropriate if viewing from work (tsk tsk tsk))

Thanks for the answers CL1, K CHad.

Maybe after the dust is settled we will get a more descriptive rating system with more defined qualifiers.

Heaven forbid we ever have enough of these to get to an accurate rating system.

Agreed. I just think the rating system should be X amount of radiation will effect X radius. Or more like weather IE you have X% chance of getting X dose in X area.

Now they can blame the cracks on the quakes. or try to.

Yes it is being suggested that they are doing exactly that. Something I would normally dismiss as conspiracy theory, but all things considered. it has the ring of truth.

Good to Know, Thanks.

TEPCO still hasn't released data from the beginning of the event.

Yep, definite issues there... but I wouldn't want to be in their shoes either... they have been riding a runaway roller-coaster just hanging on for dear life from moment to moment.

A excellent case for the swift convening of expert aid in situations like this by policy/treaty that's not incumbant on anyone to accept; rather its required. All just too overwhelming for "steady state operations" to deal with.

This is a notable event in the course of human history. It will have an impact on many for some time to come. The full depth of that impact still isn't known, as it will be dependent on near term potential changes.

I think many people have already turned the channel to watch for the next current event.

guessing there are nuclear people like GE hoping people have short term memory loss too....but this one this one isn't going away anytime soon. With 104 nuclear plants in America, well they better work harder on contingency plans, Mother Nature can throw some major hissy fits.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission speculated Wednesday that some of the core of the No.2 reactor had flowed from its steel pressure vessel into the bottom of the containment structure.

Given the possibility of damage to concrete structures, remember that the earthquake was a Magnitude 9.0, that is pretty much as bad as it gets.

I'll be looking for that Foto-Friday:) Enjoy!

Thank you PR! This is the first time I've logged on since I left that last post. Life has me going in 12 different directions right now and will be for some time. I thought I'd try to at least read thru this seed this morning after hearing yesterday the news seems to have upgraded this disaster to Chernobylesque now. *sigh* As I've said many times earlier, I can't see how it could not be when it was such a runaway situation from the onset. Sad sad sad situation! So many earthquakes yesterday. In one sense its incredible to witness such a geological event but the life cost is so enormous that it surely takes away from the awesomeness we're witnessing as mother earth does her thing.

Looking forward to reading about your trip. What a lucky grandson you have! How exciting for him! Sending my best! :-)

I will do my best. We will do our best. You just enjoy your vacation.

On a lighter note..'the book I had shared with you last week, the 'reference one'; my eldest son casually came into my room to chit chat about his day and he said WOW..i need this for my library. May I have it? I told him i needed it for the theories and equations.
When he used the art of persuasion and combined logic to prove his point; I smiled and said.. it is yours.. Son.
With a smile from ear to ear and a wink, he said one does not need to understand the equations to solve the
existing problems that Japan is facing.
After all, it was Man who created the Nuclear Bomb, Nuclear Reactors' therefore; it is Man who can reverse the damage done. We shall see.

I've been trying to find out if there was any lava flow detected closer to the Plant and coming up with zip on any information for that area. That is odd too because there is sooo much info about Pacific underwater volcanoes and lava flows. I'm fairly certain that at one time there was a lava flow detected several years back about 3 or 4 miles off Honshu. I have a few more areas to research though so not going to give up until I find out one way or the other.

I was just thinking that if the lava did reach the surface under the Fukushima plant that would not be a good thing. But then again it may solve the problem of the spent fuel rods...A stretch but hey they need all the help they can get, even if it would come from the earth

Bookmarked the above, thanks.